</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ArniK:
In the spirit of the Archeology/News thread, I'm starting a new thread to discuss the heavy lifting topic.
John Wayne (welcome back JW, you never answered me about Basque) said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I'm afraid you are terribly wrong. Look at the history of the movement of Egyptian Obelisks to see how man moved and raised (and lowered) heavy objects....as for today I suggest a short visit to the internet where you will find cranes that can easily lift 5,000 tons (and more) today. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That we now can lift such objects is a point I concede. I see cranes that lift items short distances. I don't see cranes that move objects over long distances. I have seen no evidence of those efforts in ancient times. The modern materials and metal alloys used in today's cranes weren't available, I don't believe, in ancient times. There seemed to be a limit to the weight of obelisks that the Roman's could move, they chopped off the bottom of obelisks that were too heavy. We are to believe that an even earlier people could lift and move even heavier objects and place them so precisely? That is very doubtful. Considering the age of Baalbek, copper and bronze are not very good tools to shape such large blocks so perfectly much less move them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">John Wayne, whether intentionaly or not, has unfortunetly tried to mislead you. the Egyptians did in fact cut and move large obelisks, there are records of such acts from their scribes. however, and this is where the problem lies, it took them months to cut the thing from the rock and then months to drag the obelisk into place. it could take a year of and thousands of workers to complete one single obelisk.

noone knows exactly what tools they used to cut the red granite from the quaries, but the technique was to cut circular holes around the structure untill it broke loose from the main rock. to me this looks suspiciously like there was the use of mechanized high speed circular drillers, but egyptologists, obviously but erroneously in my opinion, insist this was done with copper circular saws which by the laws of physics could not endure such work. how they handled the structures after cutting them from the rock is another mystery.

most of the early obelisks are said to have been raised by the gods themselfs, the myth of their moving is closely tied to the Phoenix, for the Phoenix fiery bird is said to have moved those obelisks into place from the queries.

Mr.P

Wait....

My grandfather and my father once worked with stones.
2 ways to easily cut a big stone without high-tech:

1)A rotating rope (this can takes months to do the job!And a lot of energy too!)

2) Make a series of holes where you want to cut,then put wood inside and wet all.Water will expand the wood so the stone will broke.(My grandfather's teaching,i think you wont find this on Internet.)

Given that you are "new" on the Internet, I have tried to be gentle in dealing with some of your posts, even dropping hints that you should have followed, learned something, and retracted something you had said. Remeber my hint as to Sitchin's publication date? Easily checked via Amazon or his bio or many other sources.

"The Stairway to Heaven" was copyrighted in 1980. Unable to Google before then, researchers went to the library. The newest text on cranes may have been five years old. SO, Mr. Crane Operator, was there in 1975 a MOBILE crane capable LIFTING over 1,200 tons, which was also capable of traversing very mountainous terrain over 0.75 miles, AND place it with high precision??? If you cannot find such a crane as of 1975, then Sitchin wasn't wrong, YOU were wrong. Is there, Mr. Truck Driver, a vehicle which can carry a 1,200 ton, 69 foot long stone over such mountainous terrain with NO roads [none have been found] without breaking it?

Your suggestion that perhaps the terrain was not so rugged when Baalbek was built indicates your are ignorant of both the fact that it is on top of a dominant mountain and the age of those mountains, per geologists.

Your suggestion of cutting the lifting cables to get them from under a precisely placed monolith is also ridiculous for two reasons. Without modern equipment, how would one pull ot the cable? [There are no rust stains anywhere.] And there are no grooves from one side to the other in the wall which would have been cut by friction of withdrawal of the cable. The monoliths are 12-14 feet THICK!

And, oh, yes - there are many ancient depictions of Baalbek before the Greeks got there. They show the podium on top of the platform with it's monolith in the proper place, and a nose cone sticking up from something that must rest in a silo. Are you familiar with severe earth vibrations from a NASA launch involving millions of pounds of thrust? Monoliths make structures vibration and earthquake resistant.