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#161756 - 07/08/05 08:30 PM
Re: Pondering a plethora of gods in a one-God holy book
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Mr.P.
Member
Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 2886
Loc: Atlanta
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(Re my #9 in post 7/8/05 18:57, Websters - "lust" v.i. to feel an intense desire, especially sexual desire [often with 'after' or 'for'])
The Torah - JPS (cont'd)
10. Num. 25:1 While Israel ... the people ...
:2 ...sacrifices for THEIR god.
:3 Thus Israel attached itself to Baal-Peor, and the Lord was incensed...
11. Num 33:4 ... whereby the Lord executed judgement on THEIR godS.
12. Deut. 5:7 You shall have no OTHER gods beside Me.
13. Deut. 6:14 Do not FOLLOW OTHER godS, ANY godS of the peoples about you
14. Deut 7:4 For they will turn your children away from Me to worship OTHER godS...
15. Deut. 7:16 And you shalt not worship THEIR godS,...
16. Deut. 8:19 If you do forget the Lord YOU God and FOLLOW OTHER godS to SERVE them...
17. Deut. 10:17 For the Lord your God is d-God supreme and Lord supreme.-d Footnote d-d Lit. "the God of godS and the Lord of LordS"
18. Deut. 11:16 Take care not to be lured away to SERVE OTHER godS...
19. Deut. 11:28 ...and FOLLOW OTHER godS whom you have not experienced.
20. Deut. 12:2 ...worshipped THEIR godS...21. Deut 12:30 Do not inquire about THEIR godS, saying, "How did these nations worship THEIR godS? ..." :31 ... they perform for THEIR godS every abhorrent act... 13:1 ...in fire to THEIR godS.
21. Deut. 13:3 "Let us FOLLOW ANOTHER god"--whom you have not experienced--
22. Deut. 13:7 "Come let us worship OTHER godS"--whom neither you nor your fathers have experienced--:8 from among the godS of the peopleS around you...
23. Deut. 13:14 ..."Come let us worship OTHER godS"--whom you have not experienced--
24. Deut. 17:3 ...turning to the worship of OTHER godS
25. Deut. 18:20 ...prophet ... who speaks in the name of OTHER godS--
26. Deut. 20:18 ...doing all the abhorrent things that THEY have done for THEIR godS...
27. Deut. 28:14 ...turn to the worship of OTHER godS.
28. Deut. 29:17 ...even now turning away from the Lord OUR God to go and worship the godS of those nations--
29. Deut. 29:25 they turned to the SERVICE of OTHER godS ... godS whom they had not experienced and whom He had not ALLOTED to them.
30. Deut. 30:17 ...lured into the worship and SERVICE of OTHER godS,
31. Deut. 31:16 This people will thereupon go astray after the ALIEN godS in their midst, in the land they are about to enter;
32. Deut. 31:18 ...all the evil they have done in turning to OTHER godS.
33. Deut 31:20 ...turn to OTHER godS and SERVE THEM,
34. Deut. 32:16 They incensed Him with ALIEN thingS... :17 GodS they had never known, NEW ONES, who CAME BUT LATELY
35. Deut. 32:37 Where are THEIR godS,
So endeth the lesson of "other godS" from the Torah. Apologies for the repetitious monotony - God made me do it, it's His words.
_________________________
Before morning constitutional, "Dear goD, for the shit yoU are about to receive, yoU are welcome."
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#161758 - 07/08/05 10:09 PM
Re: Pondering a plethora of gods in a one-God holy book
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Mr.P.
Member
Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 2886
Loc: Atlanta
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Commentaries on my Torah citings above:
#1,2,3 = three synonyms for "gods"?
#4 = all (other) gods could not SCHEME if they were of wood and stone#6 = the Hebrews are forbidden to speak the NAMES o any other gods, which explains why they're not named in the OT. (One slip-up, tho - see #10.)
#8 and several later citations = One could WORSHIP a god of stone or wood - Catholics pray to them - but how does one SERVE a solid object, e.g. bring them food, water, wine???
#9 = why would a father or son LUST AFTER statuary? Or, male gods, for that matter???
#10 = The context: "25:1 While Israel (the people of Moses) was staying at ****tim (a place), the people (of Israel) profaned themselves by whoring with the Moabite women (local people), :2who invited the (Israel) people to the sacrifices for their god. :3Thus Israel (the people) attached ITself (NOT HIMself, a male) to Baal-Peor, and the Lord was incensed with Israel (the people).
Baal-Peor canNOT be the place or either of the two peoples (Moabites and Israelites), so it MUST be the name of the local god?
#13 and others = While one can "follow" a moving god, how does one follow a wood or stone idol???
#17 = there were multiple gods AND multiple Lords???
#20 and other = clearly, other nations had OTHER gods than YHWH, but were they mono- or polytheistic???
#21 and others = The Israelites had not experienced any god but YHWH - is this just another way to frighten them of the other gods???
#25 = would a PROPHET ever talk about OTHER gods???
#31 = "ALIEN gods"!!! Does this thread need to be moved to another forum?  Sitchin was RIGHT!!!
#34 = NEW gods who they had never known were recent arrivals on Earth??? Or were they young sons of gods who had recently inherited their fathers' roles as "lord"??? Either way, Sitchin was REALLY right!!!
_________________________
Before morning constitutional, "Dear goD, for the shit yoU are about to receive, yoU are welcome."
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#161759 - 07/09/05 05:56 AM
Re: Pondering a plethora of gods in a one-God holy book
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Mr.P.
Member
Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 2886
Loc: Atlanta
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BTW, I used Strong's to find mentions of "godS" in the OT, but chased them down in the Torah. There MAY be other mentions of "godS" in the Torah that are NOT in the KJV OT, but I can't find a Torah Concordance. Anyone know of one?
Also, Strong's took me to several Torah verses where "God" was clearly speaking of "idols or images of stone or wood or metal" - I excluded those in the above lists.
MUSLIMS: Do any of you have an "Islamic O.T." in English??? Could you please help us out by posting that wording of the above verses about "godS"?
TEACH: Sure, post any that seem different in your OT, and I'll gladly post the same Torah verses in full context. Which ONE of the 1,200, divinely-inspired, translations of the Holy Bible/Word of God are you citing?
BTW, I've noticed that the "Hebrew God" sometimes spoke of "other god" in the singular, so these were missed by my using Strong's "godS". E.g., EX 22:19 Whoever sacrifices to A "god" OTHER than the Lord... Ex. 34:14 for you must not worship any OTHER "god"...
There seems to be no end to the fears of the jealous "Hebrew God" that the Hebrews were going to worship one of those other "peer godS". Did any of the "other gods" have anything that He didn't? Better looking, sexier (remembering "lust"), better vehicles or weapons, higher regard for the value of human life, more kindness... WHAT???
_________________________
Before morning constitutional, "Dear goD, for the shit yoU are about to receive, yoU are welcome."
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#161761 - 07/09/05 02:27 PM
Re: Pondering a plethora of gods in a one-God holy book
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Mr.P.
Member
Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 2886
Loc: Atlanta
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TEACH: I've got NO problem with your "leap of faith" that the "Hebrew God" "inspired" the original writings - at least, of the five books of Moses. Hell's bells 'n cockle shells, He dictated most of the Torah to Moses - "Write this down, write this down!" The later copies and translations are another matter. He must be very busy straightening out the anti-Hebrews in the anti-Universe! That's my theory and I'm sticking with it!
I'd LOVE to see Wallis here as well. I agree with your take on him, even though he occasionally coldcocks me with an unexpected curve ball right on the temple (pun intended).
OH, BOY!!! Have all the transmitters and translators of the of the O.T. been busy at anthropomorphizing the "Hebrew God"!!! He's not only jealous, but also quick-tempered and Hell-bent for vengeance to the nth degree! In that bit cited from Num. 25, because one Israelite shacked up with a Moabite woman, the "Hebrew God" killed 24,000 of the Israelites with a plague. That's a tad beyond "an eye for an eye", I think. Now wonder the folks of early Genesis were advised (by the SAME "God"???) to go forth and multiply, be plentiful - it was going to take a big population base for Man to survive these magnitudes of multiple slaughters.
I'm hoping that, in our search through the "gods" of the OT, we'll find at least one "god" that vaguely resembles the "God" of the NT. Sorry, that's off-topic - but it is my major motivation.
I hope that all the RD posters who've taken the weekend off, read all these Fri-Sat posts and get on the bandwagon!!!
_________________________
Before morning constitutional, "Dear goD, for the shit yoU are about to receive, yoU are welcome."
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#161763 - 07/09/05 09:12 PM
Re: Pondering a plethora of gods in a one-God holy book
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Mr.P.
Member
Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 2886
Loc: Atlanta
|
The "Hebrew God's" Major Actions in Genesis:
1:27 ff "God" created man ... and female ...and found it VERY good.
2:8 ff The "Lord God" planted a garden in Eden ... placed there the man ... took one of his ribs ... fashioned ... a woman.
3:8 the Lord God made sounds moving about in the garden ... couldn't find the hiding man and HIS wife (there were OTHER wives then?) ... didn't know WHO told them they were naked ... made woman's pangs in childbearing most severe ... cursed the ground ... banished them from the garden. (DANG! I wish they'd instead eaten the fruit of the Tree of Life, as you and I would be immortal!)
4:1 The Lord helped Eve gain a male child.
4:15 The Lord, instead of punishing Cain for killing Abel, put a protective mark on him, lest ANYONE (and who might THAT be?) should kill him.
4:25 God provided Eve with another offspring, Seth.
6:3 The Lord allowed man's days to be 120 years ... saw man's wickedness ... regretted that He had made man ... decided to blot out man from the earth.
6:13 God told Noah to build an ark, that He was about to bring the Flood.
7:6 God's flood came.
8:1 God remembered Noah (He'd forgotten?) ... caused a wind to blow ... told Noah when to come out of the ark.
8:21 The Lord smelled the pleasing odor of Noah's burnt offerings ... said to Himself, "Never again..." (He'd forgotten to use his foreknowledge the first time?)
9:8 God established His covenant with Noah and his offspring, set His bow in the clouds so He'd remember to never destroy all flesh. (Poor memory? Alzheimer's?)
11:6 The Lord said, "... Let US, then, go DOWN and confound their speech..." ...scattered them over the face of the WHOLE earth. (This shoots down the Clovis Point Theory! )
12:1 The Lord told Abram to hit the road ... afflicted the Egyptian Pharaoh with mighty plagues.
13:14 The Lord gave Abram land in Hebron.
16:13 The Lord = El-roi.
17:1 The Lord = El Shaddai
19:24 The Lord rained sulfurous fire out of heaven upon Sodom and Gomorrah, annihilated those cities and the entire Plain, all the inhabitants and vegetation, and turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt.
20:17 God healed the Ablimech women after having closed fast every womb in the household.
21:1 The Lord did for Sarah as He had promised and she conceived and bore a son.
22:1 God put Abraham to the test.
25:21 The Lord responded to Isaac's plea and his wife Rebekah conceived.
29:31 The Lord saw that Leah was unloved and he opened her womb, and she conceived and bore a son.
30:17 God heeded Leah, and she conceived and bore him a fifth son. (That's a quote.)
30:22 NOW God REMEMBERED Rachel; God heeded her and opened her womb. She conceived and bore a son. (Every time God heeds, a SON is born!) (Memory problems again.)
31:13 I am the God of Beth-el, tells Jacob to return to his native land.
32:25 Jacob was left alone. And a MAN wrestled with him ... "Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel, for you have striven with beingS DIVINE and human. ... I (Jacob) have seen a DIVINE BEING FACE TO FACE ...
35:1 God said to Jacob, "Arise, go up to Bethel and remain there; and build an altar there TO THE GOD who appeared to you when you were fleeing your brother Esau." :2 "...alien godS..." :4 "..ALIEN godS.."
35:11 "And God said to him, 'I am El Shaddai...' "
38:7 "But Er, Judah's first-born, was DISPLEASING to the Lord, and the Lord TOOK HIS LIFE." Onan let his seed go to waste, which displeased the Lord, and He took his life also.
39-50 God absent the rest of Genesis.
Are these diverse actions of the SAME "Hebrew God"??? Kind of Jekyll and Hyde???
_________________________
Before morning constitutional, "Dear goD, for the shit yoU are about to receive, yoU are welcome."
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