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#208359 - 12/16/04 11:07 PM
Re: Carrots from the rabbit hole
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Ryan Ruck
Администратор
Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 2770
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
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"I triple guarantee you, there are no American soldiers in Baghdad."
"Our initial assessment is that they will all die"
"I blame Al-Jazeera - they are marketing for the Americans!"
"God will roast their stomachs in hell at the hands of Iraqis."
"They're coming to surrender or be burned in their tanks."
"Be assured. Baghdad is safe, protected"
"Yesterday, we slaughtered them and we will continue to slaughter them."
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#208360 - 12/17/04 04:41 AM
Re: Carrots from the rabbit hole
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TheAntiDiluvian
Junior Member
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Ground Zero
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Army Spending $4B to Send Vehicles to Iraq
Wednesday December 15, 2004 10:31 PM
AP Photo WX103
By PAULINE JELINEK
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) - Iraqi insurgents are growing more effective and it will take time to get U.S. troops the $4 billion in armor they need for protection, defense officials said Wednesday. ``This is not Wal-Mart,'' one general said.
Officials rejected growing criticism that armor shortages in Iraq reflect poor war planning, and they said they've been working as fast as possible to give troops what they need.
At a Pentagon news conference, Army officials declined to say how much has already been spent armoring vehicles for the campaign. But they said that by the end of the next six to eight months, they will have spent $4.1 billion to try to make sure vehicles in Iraq and Afghanistan have full armor - either manufactured that way or with armor added.
They said they expect 98 percent of Army Humvees in the theater to have proper armor by March and the rest of the fleet, such as fuel trucks, by summer.
``This is not Wal-Mart ... this is a very detailed process in terms of trying to get this capability,'' said Brig. Gen. Jeffery Sorenson, adding that it takes time to study, develop, test and produce equipment needed against what commanders say is a sophisticated and ever-adapting enemy.
Asked at a separate news conference on Iraq operations whether he was concerned about still lacking protection, Lt. Gen. Lance Smith said officials are concerned that insurgents have changed their tactics -- attacking troops in the rear area after realizing they could not win in direct combat.
``Yes, we're concerned that he has changed his tactics and it's required us to armor vehicles that we might otherwise not armor,'' he said of attacks on logistics convoys.
``I don't know that we'll ever find a silver bullet'' against the insurgents' homemade bombs, said Smith, deputy commander of Central Command, which is responsible for U.S. military operations throughout the Middle East.
He said insurgents may use doorbell mechanisms today and remote controls from toys tomorrow to detonate the bombs that have become the major source of U.S. casualties in Iraq.
``As we adapt, they adapt,'' he said.
Smith and Sorenson spoke to Pentagon reporters in two separate press conferences Wednesday, a week after a soldier's question to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld ignited a firestorm over why troops lack proper armor 21 months into the Iraq campaign.
Critics of Bush administration policies in Iraq blame what they say was a rosy picture the administration held before the war. The campaign was meant to be fought at rapid speed by a limited-size force with international help to disarm Saddam Hussein of his weapons of mass destruction. Instead, no weapons were found, the international community largely refused to participate and officials have been forced to increase the size of the force there, now going up to 150,000 troops.
There was too little advanced body armor and too few armored vehicles to deal with what the Pentagon has since acknowledged is a far stronger and longer insurgency than expected, critics say. Smith said all troops now have the body vests.
Defense officials say it wasn't a matter of poor planning but that insurgents have proven very smart. U.S. forces changed various tactics, including driving convoys fast through problem areas and getting jammers that foil insurgents' ability to detonate bombs by remote control, Smith said.
``And that's been effective, but it's effective for a short time,'' Smith said. ``The enemy is very smart and thinking ... so he changes his tactics and he becomes more effective.''
Officials also said this week that the Air Force has started making more cargo flights over Iraq to keep Army transport trucks off the country's dangerous roads when possible.
``Its not just armor ... but a holistic approach'' to the threat, Sorenson said.
Stop watching Fox News buddy. you're not gonna get the truth from government mouthpieces.
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#208361 - 12/17/04 10:05 AM
Re: Carrots from the rabbit hole
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Phil Fiord
Administrator
Member
Registered: 06/11/01
Posts: 3772
Loc: Washington DC, but don't let i...
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I do not support desertion and find that those who do so are largely foul, but there is a bit of fact to numbers that are deserting the US military. It remains a fact that military service in the US is voluntary, so to desert is wrong once commited to the task.
Yoo can easily find socialist websites that use this data as a hook to hang a hat supporting their agenda, but I did find a paper that discusses another aspect to this.
I was listening to AL Rantel in Los Angeles on KABC radio, AM 790, and he is known to be conservative. He did quote the rough numbers of deserters but in another context.
From: Salt Lake Tribune
quote: Desertion charges a rarity in military Marine Corps spokesman says: How many do we charge? Hassoun. That's one in a long, long time"
By Robert Gehrke The Salt Lake Tribune Salt Lake Tribune
WASHINGTON - Legal proceedings against Cpl. Wassef Ali Hassoun are scheduled to begin next week as the West Jordan Marine defends himself against charges of desertion, a rarely used section of military code. Defense Department records show that, on average, more than 5,600 soldiers have disappeared each year from their units and been termed deserters by the Pentagon. Yet few are charged with the crime, according to those familiar with the U.S. military justice system. "How many do we charge? Hassoun. That's one in a long, long time. We just don't do it," said Maj. Doug Powell, a spokesman for the Corps. "It's extremely rare." The Pentagon classifies thousands of soldiers as deserters, either because they leave their unit or they fail to report for duty. In 2003, nearly 5,000 soldiers in the Army, Air Force and Marines were administratively classified as deserters. That number has been dropping since 2001, when more than 6,200 were designated deserters. The figures for 2004 were incomplete, and the Navy could not provide annual desertion totals. However, labeling a soldier a deserter for administrative purposes is largely a bookkeeping measure, reflecting that the soldier failed to report for at least 30 days. Being charged with desertion is rare. More often, soldiers who are apprehended or return to their unit are charged with being absent without leave (AWOL) or else their cases are handled administratively. "The difference between desertion and AWOL is the intent to remain away permanently, and proving someone intended to remain away permanently is not easy," said retired Maj. Gen. Michael Nardotti, who was the Army judge advocate general from 1993 to 1997. "You probably can count on both of your hands" the number of desertion charges filed in the past several years, Nardotti said. Under the military's code of conduct, however, prosecutors can show desertion by proving that the accused soldier was trying to shirk hazardous duty. That probably will be the course of action the government takes with Hassoun, said retired Brig. Gen. David Brahms, staff judge advocate for the Marine Corps commandant from 1985 to 1988. There have been a few high-profile desertion cases in recent months as some soldiers refuse to serve in Iraq. In May, Staff Sgt. Camilo Mejia was sentenced to a year in prison for desertion after refusing to return to Iraq. Mejia claimed conscientious objector status after he said he saw Iraqi civilians killed and prisoners abused during his deployment. And in September 2003, Marine Reservist Stephen Funk was acquitted of desertion, but convicted of being AWOL after refusing to report for duty in Iraq when his unit was activated. He served six months in prison and since his release has been an outspoken peace activist. Marine prosecutors will begin presenting their case against Hassoun on Tuesday at a pretrial hearing at Camp Lejeune, the North Carolina Marine base, which is home to Hassoun's unit. The government alleges Hassoun, a translator in a Marine anti-terrorism unit, took his service pistol and a Humvee and disappeared from Camp Fallujah in Iraq on June 20. He was initially classified as a deserter, but the status was changed to captured after video surfaced a week later of a blindfolded Hassoun with a glinting saber above his head. Hassoun was reported killed on July 3, but the group that claimed to have taken him captive said the reports were false and on July 8 Hassoun mysteriously appeared in Tripoli, Lebanon. Hassoun has not spoken about the episode, except in a brief statement in July where he denied deserting his post, insisting he was captured and held against his will. After a five-month investigation by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service, Hassoun was charged with desertion and theft of military property. At Hassoun's hearing next week, an investigating officer will hear the evidence presented by the prosecutor, Maj. Stephen Keane. The investigating officer will forward a recommendation to Hassoun's commanding officer, Brig. Gen. Mastin Robeson, who will decide whether to convene a court-martial or handle the matter administratively, which could take several weeks. The Naval Criminal Investigative Service is continuing to investigate what happened to Hassoun from the time he left the military base until the time he mysteriously appeared in Lebanon. That case would determine if any classified information was divulged. That inquiry may take some time because of the demands on the intelligence agencies involved.
_________________________
"Perception is the art of defining reality. Be careful who you allow to define it."
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#208363 - 12/17/04 07:20 PM
Re: Carrots from the rabbit hole
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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I agree with you (but most here would say I am a leftie and what would expect from such).
I was too young for Vietnam, but this war in Iraq, from what I have seen on the internet and read between the lines in the mainstram, this is a joke. Rumsfeld and Myers said they would lie to the people to get what they want. Rumsfeld organised that P2 group, to supposedly bring out the insurgents ie get them to kill innocent civilians just so Rummy can say "I told you so". The beheadings and kidnappings stink of CIA/Mossad but the mainstream stays mute. If I was a trooper, I would be wanting to get out. When the powers that be lie so blatently, who would want to be in Iraq. If I had a son, daughter, brother, sister over there , I would not only be protesting but storming the congress/parliament to get them out. Thats how strong I feel about this "war". Its a fake, and the "terrorists" "insurgents" are just Iraqi people who have woken up to what the real deal is. "Liberating" and "democracy" is just a load of crap. When the majority of the USA wake up, (which I doubt due to the lying mainstream press) maybe there will be a chance of getting out. This attack, humiliation and genocide of the Iraqi people will undoubtably cause some nutter to do what Rumsfeld and his ilk want. That is a massive attack against US civilians. This is what the neo-cons want.It suits their plans.
When it happens, just be aware of why and who instigated it.
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