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#238270 - 11/06/04 06:49 PM Was Election '04 HACKED?
Hoofish Offline
Junior Member


Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 50
Loc: Van Nuys, CA
Maybe

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm
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#238271 - 11/06/04 07:38 PM Re: Was Election '04 HACKED?
Rob-Houston Offline
Member


Registered: 09/07/03
Posts: 192
Loc: Houston
Are any post-election polls being conducted to see if they correlate with the exit polls and the actual vote tally? I'm reading a lot of accusations about vote fraud but I'm not seeing any new polling results.
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#238272 - 11/06/04 10:01 PM Re: Was Election '04 HACKED?
TheObserver Offline
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Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 2062
Loc: Hawaii
Perhaps it was or wasn't...who knows?

One thing is certain...this thread belongs in the "Election 2004-US" forum.
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#238273 - 11/07/04 10:21 AM Re: Was Election '04 HACKED?
pandora393 Offline
Member


Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 271
Hoofish, at least you got to participate in the process. I am from New Mexico, and our Governor dragged his feet for enough days that all the ballots cast in New Mexico, regardless of affiliation, didn't count, because the election was over.
Was there some level of voter fraud occuring in the United States during this election? Undoubtedly. But people who win elections aren't interested in looking for it, and they trivialize the accusations of people who lose elections.
Tah,
Pandora

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#238274 - 11/07/04 04:43 PM Re: Was Election '04 HACKED?
Hoofish Offline
Junior Member


Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 50
Loc: Van Nuys, CA
It is odd that the voting 'errors' that were found thus far are all errors in Bush's favor.

And I could undertand how exit polls maybe wrong in a few states, but in nearly every single state that Bush won? That is odd too.

Karl Rove himself mentioned to day in the news that when he heard the exit polls during election day, he got sick and thought to himself that 'something was wrong'

Some then suspect democratic foul play for the exit polling, but I do nt think so, because, for what benifit does faking exit polls have on the actual outcome of the election?

Absolutly none.

I am not much of a conspiracy buff, and when people told me 'bush will steal the election' I could not believe it, I mean, that wouldbe stupid, right? with so much attention on this election, if it turns out Kerry is the real victor, so much political damage worldwide for the US and Bush, i really had a hard time believing they would be that stupid...

but, well, I am not so sure now. isnt it odd there would be so much discrepancy, and all in Bush's favor?

this is not too suggest that Bush himself was aware of this, or perhaps even karl rove, but surely there are some people whom would have interest in bush winning the election that would organise such a thing to insure it....
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#238275 - 11/07/04 08:25 PM Re: Was Election '04 HACKED?
PsycoJoe Administrator Offline
Member


Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 1795
Loc: Michigan
(Not sure if this should be in 'Political Distrust', or left here.)

Voters in this country do not elect the president. That is handled by the Electoral College, who have no obligation to follow the popular vote whatsoever. In the past, traditionally, the college has (or so we've been lead to believe). But there's nothing, even in the Constitution (which establishes the college), that states they must follow the popular vote. This debate is moot.

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#238276 - 11/07/04 10:02 PM Re: Was Election '04 HACKED?
Hoofish Offline
Junior Member


Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 50
Loc: Van Nuys, CA
quote:
Voters in this country do not elect the president. That is handled by the Electoral College, who have no obligation to follow the popular vote whatsoever. In the past, traditionally, the college has (or so we've been lead to believe). But there's nothing, even in the Constitution (which establishes the college), that states they must follow the popular vote. This debate is moot.
psycho joe, I trust your judgement if this needs to be moved, but i also do not, personally, have a political stake in this discussion, I am just shocked at the sheer possibility of such an action and what such an action would do to our country, and indeed, the world..

the electorial college follows the popular vote, yes, this is true, but is there a force in America that would scheme winning the popular vote to gain the electorate?

there is much talk on the i nternet right now about all of this, even Ralph nader is now going to challenge it in the state of NH..

I mean, this is STUNNING if this is the case. i am not a conspiracy buff, and yes, this is current events, but would this not be quite a bizzarre thing to happen to this country after all of this?

it's not just the nutcases mentioning this, this is going to be hot stuff in the next week or so, I would imagine...

I really do hope this is just some disgruntled Dems or conspiracy buffs, but so far, that does not look like what is coming forward is suggesting, at all..

it would make Monica's stained dress seemed like nothing in comparison..

Hoo
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#238277 - 11/08/04 12:37 AM Re: Was Election '04 HACKED?
TheObserver Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 2062
Loc: Hawaii
quote:
Originally posted by PsycoJoe:
(Not sure if this should be in 'Political Distrust', or left here.)


Political Distrust..yeah, that's the place.
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#238278 - 11/08/04 12:23 PM Re: Was Election '04 HACKED?
Hoofish Offline
Junior Member


Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 50
Loc: Van Nuys, CA
I am going to continue to post various information about this on this thread. I understand if this thread must move to political distrust, but I do think this is such an anomaly that could occur, it should also be here in the front..

I will respect any decision the moderator makes

quote:
What actually happened on Nov. 2?

WARNING: The articles that you are about to read will convey a sobering portrayal of the status of democracy in this country. Your first reaction might be to discredit them as simply conspiracy theories, but the facts don't lie, and the facts that are slowly emerging about what actually happened on Nov. 2 are pointing to an ominous conclusion: the election was stolen, but this time it was done covertly and silently using electronic voting machines.

I was watching ABC's special 2004 election coverage when they called Florida for Bush. Naturally, I was shocked. "What, that's it? No uproar, no scandal, nothing? What about all those black community leaders from Ohio and Florida I heard on the radio this morning yelling about how excited they were that so many people showed up at the polls?" Despair sunk in as I started to get the feeling that we might lose. There was still hope though, because Ohio would decide the election and Kerry had been a number of points ahead in the polls there for a couple of days.

While I was waiting to see what was going to happen with Ohio, I went to CNN.com to check out their up to the minute information as more and more precincts reported in results. The interesting thing about that website was that the exit polls, at the same time that the actual results were counting Bush 52% to Kerry 48%, showed that 53% of women and 51% of men voted for Kerry. I took a screenshot at about 1:00 am just because I had a feeling something might be going on. It looks like I wasn't the only one who took a screenshot, because there are pictures of CNN's website all over the internet showing an odd discrepancy... at 1:41 am, the exit polls on CNN.com suddenly changed; now, according to them, 52% of males and 50% of females voted for Bush. The plot thickens.

The Ultimate Felony Against Democracy
Thom Hartmann is on this story and he's uncovering more and more everyday, but he's also smart enough not to make outrageous claims before all the evidence is in. So he brings our attention to the larger issue at hand: why do we even need to ask ourselves if the election results were tampered with? And how the hell did private corporations all of a sudden become our democracy's vote-counters?
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1104-38.htm

Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked
This is another one from Thom, but now it is about whether or not the election actually was stolen, and it seems that there is an accumulating amount of evidence being collected to prove it. I mean, who would have thought that good 'ol Holmes County, a small county in Florida with 72.7% of the population registered as Democrats, would go 77.25% for Bush, while in larger counties where a discrepancy like that would have definitely been noticed, high percentages of registered Democrats meant high percentages of votes for Kerry. This is just a taste, it gets worse.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm

Machine Error Gives Bush Extra Ohio Votes
The Associated Press is discovering very odd patterns in Ohio, too. Apparently, "an electronic voting system gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in suburban Columbus" and in a small precinct in Franklin County, Bush received 4,258 votes to Kerry's 260 votes, but, funny thing is, ONLY 638 VOTERS CAST BALLOTS IN THAT PRECINCT. Keep in mind that this article is from the Associated Press on YAHOO! News.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041105/ap_on_el_pr/voting_problems

CNN just changed their Ohio exit poll page
This is the graph that was changed on CNN.com.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1293911

Exit polls and ‘actual’ results don’t match; Evoting states show greater discrepancy
The inconsistencies of exit polling with actual results were not limited to Ohio, but they were not found in all states either. For some reason, the states with the greatest discrepancies between exit polling and actual results all had one thing in common: they used electronic voting machines. The shocking chart that they've posted on this website reveals that the scale of this fraud is potentially so massive that Kerry may have even won the popular vote.
http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=388
The shocking chart:
http://bluelemur.com/images/stories/evotingbig.gif

Surprising Pattern of Florida's Election Results
This chart compares, county by county, the numbers of registered voters for each party, predicted voter turnouts, and "actual" results. Counties with E-touch voting systems were generally consistent with expected results, but counties using Op-Scan machines "officially" experienced devastating declines in Democratic voter turnout and massive increases in Republican turnout. In Liberty County, a county with 7.9% registered Republicans and 88.3% registered Democrats, the number of Republicans who voted was 712% higher than expected while the Democratic turnout was 59.9% lower! This voting pattern was experienced by almost all small counties using Op-Scan machines, but only Op-Scan machines, and only small counties where it wouldn't be so easily noticed.
http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm
If your into graphs, they did some interesting stuff with this data (check out the last one especially):
http://ustogether.org/election04/florida_vote_patt.htm

You might be tiring of all this data, but if you try to talk to anybody about this, YOU ARE GOING TO NEED IT. Most people in this country believe we are living in a democracy, and when you show them that even our right to vote has been sacrificed to the power of the corporate machine, and that the American people don't actually get to elect their representatives anymore, they will most likely not believe you or simply write you off as a loony conspiracy theorist. Hard facts are our only option, and even then, most people still won't believe what you're telling them.

None the less, the American public is entitled to know the truth about their government, their political parties, and their votes. This is a crisis of democracy, regardless of whether or not the election was stolen, but especially if it was, and that is increasingly appearing to be the case. It is no wonder that George W. Bush's second term would start with a crisis of democracy. If he came to power by disenfranchising the American people, I can only imagine what's in store for us in these next four years. We must respond.

Please forward this newsletter to anyone who might be interested, Oakwood Student or not.
To be added to the mailing list send an e-mail to news@ospr.org with the word "subscribe" in the subject field. You may also write that address with any suggestions (articles, ideas, etc.) you would like to give OSPR. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Josh Nuni

  

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#238279 - 11/08/04 03:31 PM Re: Was Election '04 HACKED?
annmar Offline
Member


Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 1103
Loc: USA
Thanks for keeping this thread here!!!

I too was watching the late night results on November 2nd. And I expected Kerry to win based upon all the stuff and data that was up on the screens. Then about two hours later it was changing and DID not match logically the previous information.
Then Edwards came out and said that they would wait for ALL the votes to be counted. I was shocked when that did not happen. Senator Kerry may be too much of a gentleman and a caring person to smell a rat. Or maybe he realized that it was insidious and could not be stopped. Well, let's continue the search. Inquiring minds WANT to know.
annmar
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